Need a "Character"

[Elgrande]

I think you are missing the point Rimshot. There is some strange reasoning that makes the press always give the benefit of the doubt to all things Liverpool. Their fans have killed more opposition fans than any other English Club, but the press will hound any other club but those "good humoured Koppites" the same ones that used to throw bags of urine and filed down coins at the opposition fans. Their domination of the late 70's and the 80's was funded by the football pools and they had more money than any other club, but unlike Man Utd they never got a lot of flack for it. Leeds Utd used to get slaughtered for having hard men in their team, but Tommy Smith, Jimmy Case, Souness, Mcmahon, Hughes et al were no Angels, but the press used to gloss that over. Even now after 20 years of no title they still get more attention than other clubs that have an equal record and as for Rogers when he wins the title he will be as good manager a manger as he thinks he is.
You are right I despise them because I know what they were really like with their Stanley knives their organised "steaming" of shops all over Europe that never got reported in the UK, but was well documented all over Europe, their continuing wailing about always being the victims, but an almost denial of the events at Heysel. Even the BBC seem to think that interviewing fans in Istanbul that admitted they had no tickets, but would get in anyway just showed their passion for their team, not their complete disregard for safety and their own history.

[Robpthegills]

I dont want to get invovlved in this, but would like to be pedantic about one point.

The Fulham fan was not stabbed to death outside Priestfield.

He was under the influence of E drugs, he left the away enclosure and entered the area home fans were in leaving the stadium. He assaulted a gillingham fan who then hit him, and hit him hard. He took a knock to the side of his head
which caused him to fall down as he did so his head struck the kerb of the pavement cutting open his head. Due to the effect of the E tablets which thin your blood his blood would not congeal causing significant loss of blood.

That is how he died.


Sorry, I just feel strong about this point, as I often get londoners throwing it at me.

Other than that its a good debate. I do not like Liverpool, but I do not believe that simply by being a liverpool fan makes you a bad fan.

[CadburyMan]

Like Rob I do not intend to get embroiled in this debate but I wonder who is going to be the first person to stand on the steps of Liverpool's City Hall and share their opinions

[Garawa]

No one would hear Cadbury! These views are factually correct in many instances but never spoken about! Like Heysel, it just isn't mentioned anywhere but Hillsborough is all the time. Is it because those that died were not Liverpool fans in that case?

Being a Liverpool fan certainly doesn't make you a "bad fan" but clearly the club have enjoyed a far greater amount of back patting when many of their supporters act in a way I just don't see ever on my way to the ground (an d I would imagine at 95% of every other ground as well).

[Elgrande]

Just to back up my point this is the BBC's report on the Champions League Draw. I copied and pasted for ease of access.

Five-time winners Liverpool will face defending champions Real Madrid on their return to the Champions League.
Liverpool, back after a five-year absence, have also been drawn alongside Basel and Ludogorets of Bulgaria.
Manchester City will play Bayern Munich for the third time in four seasons, as well as CSKA Moscow and Roma
Arsenal face Borussia Dortmund for the second season running, while Chelsea look to have a kind draw against Schalke, Sporting Lisbon and Maribor.
The Gunners, who qualified for the group stages for the 17th season in a row by beating Besiktas 1-0 on aggregate in the play-off, have also been drawn with Galatasaray and Anderlecht in Group D.
As well as Bayern, Premier League champions City also played CSKA Moscow in last season's competition, winning home and away to help them advance to the last 16, where they were beaten 4-1 on aggregate by Barcelona.
Liverpool won their third European club title by beating Real Madrid 1-0 in the 1981 final in Paris thanks to an Alan Kennedy goal and manager Brendan Rodgers is delighted to be playing the record 10-time winners of the competition again.
"To be back in it again, no matter who we were going to play, it was always going to be exciting. But to have Real Madrid in your group, the champions last season, is going to be special," Rodgers told Liverpool's website.
"I'm already thinking of Anfield on that night. But there are two other good teams in it along with us. It's a tough group but we'll really look forward to the challenge of getting out of the group."
Reds chief executive Ian Ayre added: "Is it going to be tough? Of course, but we wouldn't be in it if it wasn't difficult, fun and challenging and we have prepared ourselves well and have good preparations.
"It's an exciting group, it's our competition, we're five-times winners and big nights against teams like Real Madrid is what it's all about."
Real Madrid's former Manchester United forward Cristiano Ronaldo won the Uefa Best Player in Europe Award at the draw in Monaco, beating Bayern Munich pair Manuel Neuer and Arjen Robben, who were also short-listed.
Ronaldo said of the Liverpool clash: "It'll be nice, I've never played there for Real Madrid. Liverpool is a very, very difficult stadium. But we are Real Madrid so we're going to try to win."

[Elgrande]

As for shouting on the steps of the Liver Building; doesn't that make my point! City of culture: only in a Lab!

[Rimshot]

Absolutely, simply can't compare with Basildon. Sorry guys nothing but prejudice in this thread, Liverpool has made outstanding contributions to British culture,let's just start with the biggest contribution ever to pop and rock , the Mersey influence changed popular music on a global level.

As for the cutting and pasting exercise, that got top billing because it was Real Madrid, please try to concentrate.

[Elgrande]

Basildon is a dump; so what I have no association with Basildon apart from living near there for a few years and hated it. What has pop music got to do with the behaviour of football fans and the strange slant on reporting. Not prejudice; just people making a point about the strange way that one club seems to be the darling of the football press and the way their fans behaviour always seems to get the equivalent of air brushing.

[Rimshot]

You brought up City of culture not me Elgrande. Don't raise a point of discussion if you can't defend your view. The fact is Liverpool, whatever it's faults, has always contributed massively to our cultural heritage.

[Elgrande]

Yes I did bring up the City of Culture, but why mention Basildon? I have no connection as I never lived in Basildon, only close to it. Liverpool may have contributed to English culture, but so have many other Cities and Towns, but the press has this love affair with Liverpool FC. Not so much in the 60's when the "culture" was thriving, but mostly the late 70's and 80's when the likes of Derek Hatton were in the news. If Suarez had played for Man Utd and Ferguson had acted the same as Dalglish and Rogers the press would have slaughtered him.

[Elgrande]

So Brendan Rogers seems to be growing a Liverpool attitude to England and a wonderful way of trying to include players from other teams,

"Fast players would have a second day recovery while other players can work on that day.

"When you are that type of quick player like Daniel Sturridge, Raheem Sterling and boys like Danny Welbeck, you need to recover them."

[Elgrande]

It was a fairytale ending reminiscent of the many glorious European nights that Anfield witnessed under Gerard Houllier and Rafael Benitez, who led the Reds to the fifth European Cup triumph in 2005.
Liverpool scrape a win against a team that were amateur 4 years ago and this is the BBC lead comment! Work that out.