Southend winding up petition

[Robpthegills]

As you know Posh, I actually agree with a lot of what your last post says.

I agree about the sale of social housing.

Just ONE big matter to point out. NEVER were any soldiers dressed up as policemen to antogonise Miners. A riddiculous statement that has grown in urban myth. Think of it sensibly. Where do most squaddies come from, they come from traditionally the poorest estates in the country, the heartland of labour, its sheer nonsense to think they would get involved.

Anyway, I worked with all the policemen that had new cars or new houses due to the strike. Thing is posh its a bit like a footballer and the fans. The fans call a player a Waker and cut for hours then get upset when the player mouths a word back or does a hand gesture. The police had to tolerate loads of verbal abuse and physical abuse at the hands of the miners, so guess what They gave the miners some back. Well good on them.

I was at the Horsham live animal exportation demonstrations in the late eighties. Spark plugs, fishing weights and used tampax thrown at us for hours on end.....I can tell you now, we didnt treat the ladies pleasantly if we ever did get our hands on them.

I still think you are Totally BLIND about people wanting to work. You just shrug your shoulders and say it is a newspaper thing. No its not. I have struggled to find people, whilst offering a good wage. The hop fields and fruit fields in Kent have to Import thousands of immigrants every summer, whilst our high streets are full of english people drinking 8% lager and smoking weed whilst shoplifting their daily bread. Go to gillingham high street any day of the week and witness it. 10am in the morning. In the past you have said its because we do not give them incentives..............why do we always have to do everything for them.

Yes maggie did bring in more expensive coal to break the back bone of the miners. Well bearing in mind what the Unions had just done to the last labour govt they needed pegging back a thing or to.
I am an advocate of unions, they have a place and their place is absolutely paramount to a success within large organisations. Until they start to think they are larger than the organisation and forget who pays the bill's.

As I have said lots and lots of times on here though is this simple fact. All the tory or right voting people on here seem to recognise the failings of the Torys and the current govt, however there never ever ever seems to be any recognition of the absolute dire Piss hole labour put us into or the things they have done wrong by the labour or socialists on here.

Oh and by the way Maggie apologised for stealing the childrens milk is she now as acceptable as Heseltine

[Robpthegills]

took this off of facebook. Though Provoking if nothing else


An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no... one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan".. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

The second test average was a D! No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. Could not be any simpler than that. (Please pass this on) These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

[Poshgill]

I just wrote an interesting and erudite response (albeit rather long!) to Rob and pressed the wrong button on my laptop and lost the lot!

I have neither the time nor the inclination to re-write it again so all I can say is

Boll#!s!

[Rimshot]

Agreed Posh, it's just a series of Christmas Cracker platitudes.

[Robpthegills]

in YOUR opinion Rimshot and Posh

but not the opinion of the majority of the country as your party is not in power

Christmas Cracker hmmmm oh sorry rimshot does somebody dare disagree with you.

As for the socialism thing it looks about right to me.

Or are only socialists allowed opinions, well some socialists anyway.

[Rimshot]

As a matter of fact Rob, no one party is in power and the material you lifted from social networking defies any kind of translation into a political credo. It's just a series of vaguely right wing assertions which would probably have Daily Mail readers nodding in agreement.
Apologies by the way for posting my opinion but I didn't feel qualified to post anyone else's.

[Robpthegills]

LOL i love the way you always throw the daily mail at me. A paper I have not read in over 10 years.

You are entitled to an opinion, its just the way you look down on others who hold theirs.

Anyway onwards and upwards. There is no debate or discussion, you just think your right and belittle those who don't. Good luck to you.

[Robpthegills]

oh and btw....the post that I took off of a social networking site.

I explained where it was from in part to qualify how serious it should be taken and said it was thought provoking.

Sorry, i didnt realise randomness was forbidden on here, or the fact others can quote a tv programme or other such information media,
but if it disagrees with what you think then no one else can.

[Garawa]

I think half the trouble here is that key issues in history will always be used as beating stick and those that have always voted a certain way will always continue to do so. I like to think I can judge parties on their merits, but really do not see an alternative to what we have given the very recent track record of the last government. They ALL have very serious faults, there isn't one that deserves to be in power so constantly trying to undermine what is happening causes the issues.

As for Rob's post, I thought it was interesting. Who cares if it is factually inaccurate, it made you think and that was merely what Rob implied when he posted it. Whether it would actually happen or not is neither here nor there, there is a decent amount of potential in it that I am certain it implies to large sectors of SOME societies if not the country as a whole.

[gillsfan1066]

And with that the discussion came to a close, Robb pulled up his pants, Garawa gave his butt one last kiss and everyone went home for tea.
I'm joking, I'm joking, I too think the rich should be thrashed within an inch of their stinking miserable lives, have all their money and chattels taken away , then we will see who pays the taxes to keep the unemployed, unemployable and just down rite lazy in hand outs, guess all those unemployed, unemployable and down rite lazy will have to pay the taxes to cover their weekly or monthly payments, this should be fun to see.

[Poshgill]

Well, back to trying to write the same post that I attempted earlier............

Rob, I spoke to a mate today that was in the mob at the time of the miners dispute. He confirmed most definitely that some Army lads were deployed as covert Police officers. Special forces mainly and used as Agent Provocateurs to stir up trouble. He knows some of them personally. And they were based at Hereford at the time! They never wore collar numbers unlike regular bobbies. What you have to remember, the miners strike was the first political strike that was taken on by the Govt. Yes, we all know that the Labour Govt of the 70s were cosy with the trade unions at the time as they were the major contributors to the Labour Party (much like the Tories were cosy with the CBI) but Labour generally refused to get involved in industrial disputes, preferring to leave it to the Management to sort (with the exception of Barbara Castle getting involved with the striking women at Ford's, but that was more about equal opportunities). Thatcher had 2 things on her agenda. Smash the miners, because the Tories blamed them for the 3 day working week which ultimately brought down the Heath regime (The fact that his economic policies were a disaster with inflation running at almost 20% is lost in the mists of time) and Trade Union reform. Scargill played right into her hands. As I said earlier. 2 very similar characters that was always going to lead to a clash as both were too arrogant to reach a compromise. The irony is, that the only reason the Thatcher Govt could tackle the miners was because the country had just started to be become economically sufficient as North Sea Oil was generating income. The fact that the Govt was financially secure for the first time since before the war was as a result of the previous (and much maligned) Labour Govt taking the radical step to Nationalise North Sea Oil. A decision taken by, of all people, Tony Benn.

As for your post from FB comparing Socialism with High School grades. Well, I am surprised at a man as intelligent as you bothering with such clap-trap. It is a typical American load of old bull to simplify something so that their tiny minds can understand the concept. (BTW, Rimshot never accused you of being a Daily Mail reader, he simply stated that it is the sort of trite rubbish that would have a Mail reader nodding in agreement!)

Grades are given on ability. Not effort or desire. In life, some people are more fortunate than others. Some people, despite working hard, just do not possess the ability that others may. Some work hard and get lucky breaks, some people, through no fault of their own never get the breaks in life and just get dealt a bum hand and some people just do not have the ability to raise themselves to another level. Now, I would say that you, Rimshot and myself have done quite well for ourselves in our chosen careers. A lot of that is hard work but there is also a degree of fortune along the way. It is our responsibility to help those less fortunate than us in Society. The best way we can do that is by paying a little more back into Society (via the tax system). We do this to help those that are not able to have the fortune we have. This is the basis of Socialism. To create a better society for all, not just the privileged few. This is what separates us from the animals and, as a Christian, I'm sure you would agree, is the fundamental principle of Christianity.

[Snackboyslim]

Good gracious gents...

Way too deep for me, I live a quiet sort of life and just get on with things as nothing is going to be right for every one, never will be..

Any chance of getting back to the Southend 'predicament' ??

on a football note only, I have to agree with garawa- tho Posh, without wanting to get entangled in such a heavy debate.. great last paragraph my friend, couldn't agree with you more.

[gillsfan1066]

Some people are doctors, some are petrol station attendants, some are bus drivers ,some people are CEOs of multi national companies. Problem I see is that the guy who pumps the gas or drives the bus seems to have forgotten that he is not "entitled" to drive a Porsche, vacation in the Caribbean, or live in a 2 million pound house.
When my kids were born I looked all over for the stamp that said this baby will be a doctor or a nurse, a plumber or a hamburger flipper, and you know what nothing, nothing that said my kid would become an oral surgeon.
The person who "peaks" doing one of these lower paid jobs seems to resent the guy who is successful, e.g. his boss , resents the guy who goes to collage and studies 15 hours a day for 3 or more years, resents the guy who works his ass off to do well for himself and his family. Greatest saying in the world, the harder I work the luckier and more successful I become.
IT'S UNFAIR he's got a Porsche and I haven't, it's the teachers fault I screwed about a school, acted the fool, it's society's fault I spent every nite in the bar trying to pick up girls and getting drunk, it's not my fault I'm 50 and working at the local supermarket. YES IT *ing well IS, because it sure as hell is not mine or anyone else's.

[Rimshot]

Rob I'm sorry but you are the one getting shirty about others expressing an opinion. If I don't agree with you I'll say so and on this I don't. I respect that you are a sincere bloke and I've no wish to fall out with you but I think you are being way too sensitive.

I do agree with some of what 1066 says about a culture of envy; I think that's one area where the attitude in the USA is rather healthier than it is here. Fact is though that life can deal you some crap and when adversity is not your fault it must be hard to watch the Bob Diamonds of this world sitting on their ill-gotten gains, especially if you are a taxpayer still funding the left-overs of corporate greed. I know plenty of hard working people who are struggling at the moment and just as many well -heeled types who are the beneficiaries of undeserved advancement.

Life ain't fair. That doesn't mean you can't make it better.

[Poshgill]

Chicago, I do agree with you. We have created a culture of 'want it now' mentality and unfortunately that is a symptom of the 80s where greed is good was drummed into us. We (as a society) were brainwashed into believing that Left wing policies didn't work. Regan's Trickle-down economics (which was never going to work) and Thatcher's 'There is no such thing as Society' were, IMHO largely responsible for the state of the World today. We had a lot of young people growing up in the 80s who were real beneficiaries of these policies. They have then become the parents and leaders of another generation and have continued to practice the me, me, me society. This has now over-spilled into 'entertainment' where people with no discernible talent are famous just for being on TV. But we need to take stock. I suspect it is too late and I probably won't see any improvement in my lifetime as it will take at least another generation, but it is starting. People are starting to realise that Bankers are culpable for a lot of the problems. People are starting to realise that Politicians are a cheating bunch of liars (of all political persuasion) and a lot of hard working, decent honest people are fed up with sections of society either not contributing or getting far to much for not doing much.

Until politics gets back on track, we will continue to suffer. Liberalism has been shown that it doesn't work. We need strong leaders now and unfortunately, there are none of any party.