Leyton Orient (A)

[Kent_UckyFriedGills]

We make the short trip to East London on Saturday with another tough game at Leyton Orient.At the start of the four games of MK Dons,Rotherham,Peterbrough,and Orient,I saw the Orient game as a good chance to nick a result.They have dropped from the top two to 4th and the playoffs is the highest they can achieve now.They have not won in five matches,so if we could put in a good performance then there is a chance we could nick the win,or get something from the game.We will have to defend better than we have recently though,as we have been conceding some poor goals.I wont be making the trip this time,but our last game there we won 0-1 in our FA Cup game and we can do with a result like that again.

What Team would you play? Charlie Lee is likely to partner Barrett again with Legge,and Inniss injured.Would you go 4-4-2 and attack a side that has not won in five games? Or 4-5-1 and try and nick a goal while being hard to break down?

[Garawa]

We are higher up thanks to winning games that we might have drawn but likewise have lost some we could have drawn. The "lack" of draws have given us an extra couple of points from each game but the defeats have not helped the goal difference. As that is unlikely to improve much we may as well go for it. Attack and they might crumble as they clearly are suffering a crisis of confidence or simply fatigue from their small squad. Win 3-0 or lose 5-0 really doesn't matter much, we are not expecting to win so lets go for it. I would even go for Harriman and Hewitt in defence and play Lee in the middle with a view to push forward, I think he might cause them some trouble!

Some very interesting facts about the game can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=968

[Kent_UckyFriedGills]

I listened to the game on Gillsplayer and it was really bad to listen to,so must have been a lot worse to witness.It did sound like we lacked passion on the pitch today.Two early goals again conceded,and 4-0 down on 35 minutes is not good enough.Going by the commentary we could have been 6-7 down at half-time.With a big away following our fans deserved better,a few let the club down though by smashing seats at the back of the stand.The second half Orient did sound less threatening,but they probably took their foot off the gas.Fagan scored a small consolation,but it made no difference to the game as it was over.Tranmere on Friday becomes massive,but the way we`re defending I am starting to fear for our safety.I think Cody and Bayo need to start together for Tranmere,as Cody has not been in the games lately with the system and we need him scoring goals.

Three defeats in a row now,and this is the wrong time to go on a really poor run.

[gillsfan1066]

What a load of rubbish. I though Taylor was able to get these losers up for the "big games", he can't, Gillingham need to give a young manager a 3 year contract and let him build a team, stop bringing in these old "re treads" that have more mileage on them the God.

[Rimshot]

We now have the second worst defensive record in the division. Doesn't sound like a well drilled and organised set up does it?

[Garawa]

I'm not concerned by this. I expected to lose these 3 games and we have, hardly any surprise. Rotherham are perhaps the most in-form side in the division, Orient was a tiny bit of a shock as they were on a poor run but still a very dangerous side. We have no right to expect results against these sides and we all know our defence needs changing in the summer so it shouldn't be a surprise we are leaking goals either. I don't think it is a "well drilled and organised side" by virtue that a lot of the damage and goals conceded occurred at the start and Taylor has barely been able to cover what was already available.

Until yesterday, 8 other sides had conceded 5 or more in a game including Peterboro who look good for a play-off spot and may be Championship again next season. Are we better than those sides? Is conceding 5 in a game really that bad and shouldn't happen to us? Arsenal were still title contenders until a couple of weeks ago and yet they conceded 5 or 6 to their rivals on a few occasions. Coming so close to the 4 from Rotherham of course it looks bad but if they were games apart we wouldn't think anything of it! I am not making excuses, just trying to add a touch of realism to the situation. I consider these 3 games to be in the top 10 toughest games of the season and they came in a row. Heck we even said earlier in the season that if we were in the bottom 4 when they came round we were in BIG trouble. We all accept our defence isn't good enough for this division so I am struggling to see where the shock at losing 3 on the bounce is.

It is not these games we would secure our points from, the time to panic is if we lose to Tranmere on Friday. Even a draw may be good enough if we win one of the remaining 3 games and we could even draw one or two instead. Plenty of noise is needed Friday and a bright positive start, we cannot afford to start quietly. Tranmere are not only fighting for survival but also want to avoid a double and that often goes against us when we have previously won on the opposition's doorstep. It cannot happen this time.

[Rimshot]

Was that straight from the pen of PDPS ? Of course we have the 'right' to expect results from GFC that's why we support them. Unless the philosophy at the club is now so defeatist that the manager says ,'OK lads , I don't expect a result today so there's no need for the defence to turn up'.
If fans' expectations were to rest solely on the form book it would be a dull old game.

[gillsfan1066]

Old Garawa has been drinking out of Scally's cool aid jar again, defending the Gills even though they played like maggots Saturday . We have got a game at PNE and a game at Walsall, I guess with your thinking they are both loses, so we might as well forfeit them and save the gas money on the bus, lol. We play Tranmere who are in a dog fight for survival, and have a game in hand over us ( as does Oldham ) Tranmere have won more away games than the Gills have this season, and we have got Shrewsbury on the last day of the season who I think will already be relegated by then and funny things happen to sides already relegated, they love to act as spoilers and dam well go out and play there butts off.
I think at the moment I am relying on the teams below us to lose and keep us safe more than I have faith in GFC to win another couple of games and get the points needed to stay up.
I really hope I am wrong and we trounce Tranmere Friday, draw at Walsall, and PNE and then that last game wont matter, only be playing for pride.

[Garawa]

Read my post again please! How am I defending by saying I thought we would lose? Seriously, re-read it and see what I am actually saying! Are you saying you EXPECTED wins away at Orient and Peterboro and also at home to Rotherham? Why is it so hard to understand that I didn't expect to win those games. Looking at the odds the bookies didn't either, so it must just be you then!

Why do I have to be some sort of apologist for Scally by stating we have no right to EXPECT to win those kinds of games? I didn't say we COULDN'T as I said that I felt Orient were beatable however I didn't EXPECT to win them. If we did win these games and also the games we do EXPECT to win then we would be champions by Christmas. You are dead right about it being a dull game if we didn't pick up surprise results but the way everyone was talking on Saturday it was made to sound like such a shock result rather than a result that was probably due to happen. And if this were to be a surprise result it shouldn't come as a shock when it doesn't happen! The performance was irrelevant in this, that is a completely different matter as all I was saying that we shouldn't get too het up about losing 3 in a row as the points were more likely to come from other games. I haven't found anyone that has said our defence is a solid League 1 standard so the fact they didn't turn up against a clinical set of forwards also shouldn't come as a shock. I can't get my head round why that is hard to understand.

In my opinion (I am often wrong and so to is everybody else on here) we lost games I was pretty sure we would lose. We were pathetic Saturday and we lost but had we played brilliantly and only lost 1-0 we would STILL HAVE LOST. Defending Scally, defending poor performances or just being realistic accepting that our team is not the strongest by far in this league??? Sorry, reading some of these posts on various forums clearly we should be in triple points figures by now.

I will change my tune entirely if we don't get a result against Tranmere. If we still need 2 more points they are more likely to come from the Tranmere and Stevenage home games aren't they or should we EXPECT another 3 points at Preston instead / as well? More disappointment heading our way then.

[Rimshot]

I think you need to read your original post, which said we had no right to expect RESULTS, not necessarily wins. Personally I reserve the 'right' to expect my team to get results, especially at home when the need is there and relegation still a possibility. We beat Wolves, why should we not expect as much against the likes of Rotherham. or a point against an out of form Orient as opposed to a pathetic drubbing and being four down in 35 minutes ?

Realism has long been the excuse for failure and it won't surprise anyone when I repeat my belief that under Scally we will never break out of this perpetual spiral between league 1 and 2. I was looking via google at a selection of Scally headlines over the past decade and it makes pretty nauseating reading, especially all the crap about middle eastern investors , for which read Dubai estate agents, ground moves, new players etc. Not to mention all the court appearances, every one of them resulting in expensive losses.

[gillsfan1066]

I don't think the blame lies just with Scally, although I don't think he really knows how to run a football club, to many Scallys in the directors lunch line for me. For what ever reason Pulis was let go, I think that guy would have got us into the Championship and we could have stayed there for many years.
When Hessy took over Scally did nothing to help him when things started going wrong, we needed a good general manager, someone to come into the fold and tell Hessy what he was doing right and what he was doing wrong, someone that had been a successful manager in the past but did not want the aggravation of running the on field operation, not to manage the players but Manage Hessy.
To this day I can not understand what happened to our last manager, this time last year he was the most loved guy in Giillingham ,three months later he is an idiot that can't manage a box of Christmas crackers. I guess a small number of players rebelled against him and the cancer grew. Once again a good GM would have solved this problem, nipped it in the bud so to speak and I think we would be nearer the top then wallowing in the cellar.
I think the Kent fans are to blame, apart from the Wembley excursions that have not backed the team, I can understand people say north of Gravesend might well support London area clubs, but people that live in Sevenoaks, Tankerton, Margate, Maidstone and all points in between?
I like you fear that we are doomed to wander between the 1st and 2nd divisions until the next hundred years pass, or I win the Lottery, purchase the team and manage by committee, all decisions to be made after a few bottles of Scotch and a couple of dozen six packs.

[Garawa]

By results I meant wins and was referring by and large to the last two away games. Some fans on other forums seem to be so angry at the scoreline. I can understand the performance which was woeful but not the scoreline, in this league with our defence the miracle is that it hasn't happened before......several times!

I suppose this is why we love football, the uncertainty of it all. Beat Wolves at home with a rare clean sheet but lose to Crewe. Play 4-2-3-1 looking very solid and hard to break down against MK Dons and then get trounced the same way by Orient. I'm not sure anyone has any answers to why some work and some fails abysmally, all I can do is try and rationalise it all with how other sides fair and quite frankly we could have done an awful lot worse. The whole season I think will come down to Friday, it is a must win, a have to win game. And I repeat something I said earlier that I would expect to lose against Preston (who beat fellow strugglers Carlisle 6-1 on Saturday) as they haven't lost at home in 10 games. Hope to get something? Of course! Capable of winning, yes. Do I think we will, no so it won't shock me if we do lose. Of course it may be irrelevant if we win Friday or even pinch something at Walsall on Monday, let's hope it doesn't come to that!

[Garawa]

Gillsfan, put simply Allen gets results by shock treatment and it only works for a very short space of time. From the very offset he controlled everything by manipulating it in a way to make it look good to the fans. He dictated how and what was described in a match report - no players were allowed to be reported as "injured" and the media team got into trouble for describing an open goal miss as "missing a sitter" as he made it clear none of his players "miss sitters"! He controlled the matchday music wanting the same reggae and ska music to be played every game as it "spurred on the players" even though many hated it and were in the dressing room when most of it was played. He spent thousands and thousands on silly bits of plastic, mats and paint and got told no after promising the Rainham End a giant flag. My stats had to go from the programme and website as the facts could not be altered (even though I generally printed ones that aimed at the positive side of what I was writing about)!

All this without any players being involved. He made them run miles round the town which was OK but his training methods were obsure at best and dangerous at worst. Any player who won that previous season awards or were a fan favourite or brought in by Hessy wasn't played or was shipped out. It was 100% Allen or nothing at all. These were from speaking with a few people inside the club, his demands were unreasonable. I was in the media office after a friendly and he demanded a DVD of the game within 10 minutes of the end....the whole 90 minutes!

These tactics work very well when you need a kick a few up the bum or turnaround results dramatically but it is short lived. In truth, had we not started so strongly we would see how that tailed off significantly as the tactics lost their effect. Players were cast out or refused to play, some stated how bad the dressing room morale was after the New Year. It was always going to end badly but he will always be a firm favourite with the fans. He is clever. He knows his oddball methods and unpopular decisions will alienate many fans so he did whatever was necessary to get them on his side, even inviting some on the team coach. The smokescreen worked for the vast majority and we will never know half of what really went on.

[Kent_UckyFriedGills]

I think us fans will always be fond of Allen for how he treated the fans,and achieving our first Title in 49 years.But I can really see why he had to go when I read the above and how he was.Us fans only saw the Allen in interviews,and on a matchday,so we never saw what he was like behind the scenes.Once you lose the dressing room its the end for you at any Club.

I think fans have not taken to Taylor much,because they were used to Allen`s way of interacting with fans,where Taylor keeps the distance and doesn`t go out of his way like Allen did.Basically we went from very friendly and interacting,to a quiet Manager who keeps himself to himself,It was probably an act as Gary says,but fans don't care if they`re treated well.If Taylor keeps us up he will have done a good job with a poor squad overall,and will have done his job.He will deserve a new deal and a budget to rebuild the squad in the Summer.One thing I wish Taylor did though was clap the fans after an away game,as even though it is a minor thing it shows the fans are noticed after travelling a long way especially after a stuffing.

[Rimshot]

Garawa the situation you describe is one where the right chairman would have backed his manager. He appointed him and should have had the commitment to strengthen the squad. My view is that there were players who couldn't step up a division. They were happy enough to take the plaudits of promotion after all. A football club is never going to be the most democratic place, can you imagine what kind of regime the likes of Ferguson, Poyet, Warnock and Allardyce run ? Read the biographies of Revie,Ramsey and Clough.

Taylor strikes me as a man who prefers the quiet life, he has had his day in the sun and GFC is just a nice pension for the drift into obscurity.

Our club is primarily run as an income generator for a chairman with precious few scruples and no interest in football.